The Giver
Let's discuss the book here...
some interesting questions that we have discussed are related to the idea of individual vs. society. Although we all seem to agree that we would not want "sameness," the arguments to be made for a society without violence, war, competition, crime, etc. are strong. On page 111, the Giver talks about when the Committee of Elders sought advice about families having more than two children. The Giver advised against it after bringing back the memory of starvation an warfare due to overpopulation. Maybe if we were poor and hungry we'd be more inclined toward the idea of a "utopia." What do you think?
posted by Ms. Mayo @ 1:30 PM
33 Comments:
In Global we discussed a similar issue.. in Mohedro-Daro archeologists found no evidence of weapons, class distinction, or crime. Does this mean they lived in a Utopia? Isn't the idea "utopia" up to the individual?
I think that if we were poor and hungry, we would really want a utopian society. I mean, they have everything. It is perfect as it would mean. But it is really their own choice. If they want everythign to be decided for them or they decide themselves.
JohnZ's comment about the Marshal Plan giving aid so that people in Europe didn't choose COmmunism over Capitalism was insightful... Is communism seen as a utopia?
As for theidea of people keeping dangerous knowledge away from us; I'm not sure I want to know everything. Maybe the reciever should just keep the knowledge...low flying airplanes weren't scary to New Yorkers until recently. Too much info terrifies me.. but I guesss so does too little.. really insightful conversation guys!
Can you imagine the frustration Jonas is feeling as he is losing his ability to relate to his friends and family? The more he learns, the less he fits in.
We've discussed the idea that knowledge is power when we talked about the fact that there are no books in Jonas's community. In this case, the knowledge Jonas has seems to be causing him more problems.
I liked Christine's comment that "you can't have your cake and eat it too." It made me think of another saying-- "Ignorance is bliss."
What do you think this means and how does it apply to the concepts in the book?
Larry,
We have to wait another week or so until everyone has a chance to finish the book to discuss the ending in detail!
Next week, I'll share with you what the author said about the ending. To me, based on other aspects of the text, it's a happy ending and I can imagine what happens next even though the Lois Lowry doesn't state it clearly.
I'll be interested to hear what you think happens (next week!).
i guess Jonas's father killed the baby because he had no pain, no feeling. THere is no pain or pleasure in this utopian society. I feel so sad for the baby and now Jonas decides to run away because of his father and he wants to experience 'elsewhere'. But doesn't Jonas care about his family&friends?
I understand what you're saying, Tiffany. But...now Jonas is faced with a decision to make: stay and be the only one who really knows what everyone is missing AND suffer all the painful memories OR escape?
What do you (or anyone else) think you would do in this situation? Why?
Ms. Mayo
i don't think the people would choose a utopian society because if you think about it utopian societies really don't know the difference between right and wrong and you would be robbed of your chance to be an individual.
I think that Jonas should have spread his memories to his friends and family so that they can experience it and my understand the world more.
may**
I think that living in a Utopian society such as the giver is a bad idea. How can a person live with out memorys that we can look back to and laugh at? How can you live with out color which defines an object and makes it stand out more? In a utopian society such as the giver the only purpose to bieng alive is to complete a job or do your job, you dont have any thing to enjoy, you can feel any king of emotions, you dont have the right to chose. In a Utopian society you are not judged by your person but the job you do and how you do it,
to correct an error in my previous post i meant to write kind of emotions
I think if i were poor and starving, i would definetly be living in an Utopian society. Because in a Utopian society you can fulfill all you needs and they have eveything you want. I agree with what dk said about how in a Utopian soctiey everyone will be treated equally. But i also think its that individuals choice if they want to be in that "perfect" society.
Are we living a lie?
testing
i agree with vickie and durkhanai. If there are so many different type people in a community, there will be mixed emotions. Poor and starving people would feel inferior to others. So I guess in a way, utopia is an ideal way to live.
Jaicy G.
I wouldn't want to live in this so called perfect community. i wouldn't want to be perfect, and never see color, and never be able to have my own identity. But i also think that this place in some ways is a postivie place. there is no racism, and no bad memories of war and seperation, but still i feel that the bads out way the goods. So how can a place be so perfect, but have so many flaws?
Alyssa Faller
I think that the people in the utopian society are missing out on all the natural things in life.....It is impossible to live & think about living about living in a utopian society. ( Manpreet Kaur)
what I've thought of this that If was poor & hungry & the other people have money to eat that would make me ostrigized & I would dislike it. Sanchez
I belive that living in a Utopian society only benifits people who are starving because living there they can get food. Other people wouldnt want to live there because there is no freedom.... -Enrique
The book the Giver, is basically about a utopian or communist society and Jonas's reaction to it. Even though I dont like communism, I think that the general idea of it looks good on paper. Having no starvation, no war , everyone equal with no rich and no poor. But as history shows us time and time again, communism doesn't work and will never work so thats why i think that smart people, ether rich or poor, wouldn't agree to living in a communist community.
Thomas A
I think that a utopian society wouldnt be exactly terrible, even tho we wouldnt be thinking and we would lose alot of things, but we would not know that we would be missing those things. I think that we have an alright society as it is, butwe are missing alot of things, the people of the giver arent missing anything in there lifes.
Why did jonas wanted to drowned him self in the river? i didnt get that part.
jenifer conteras
i think that even though we have starvation and such we would still be better off the way we are as opposed to living in the community in the giver.
I think Utopian societies are ridiculous because there would never be a perfect world because everyone is different and they have their own mind so therefore the world would never be perfect.
The only way the world could be perfect is if some one controls people minds. (That would never happen)
To anwser Jennifer's Question:
the author never said exactly why Jonas wanted to drow himself in the river, but i can make some assumptions. After Jonas had recieved all the memories of heartache, bliss and endless human emotions he could never be the same again. Imagine being totaly sheltered, when suddenly your blindsided by the whole truth of the world. Jonas wanted to share all the new emotions he had been given, but realized none of the people he loved could understand or reciprocat his emotions. He also realized how corrupt and distorted his society was. jonas felt so helpless, that he wanted to disappear from the society. Knowing that he could not ask to be realesd, Jonas knew of only one other way to escape his society, and that was to drown in the river. Vickie Lennon
"Jonas felt a ripping sensation inside himself, the feeling of terrible pain clawing its way forward to emerge in a cry." Chapter 19, pg. 151 What a powerful quote...talk about imagery.
Many of you bring up good points about how Jonas should now take the knowledge he has and educate others. This brings us back to our first week in the book, "Is knowledge power?"
A theme in this book is the "importance of memory" Jonas is really starting to question this. Do memories bring significance into our lives? Does pain lead to happiness? What do you think?
Ms.P
i definitely agree with niska. A utopia to me is a world that is chosen for you. No freedom of speech, no choices..come on who made this up??? This utopian society that ms. laury, or how ever you spell it, made definite goes against my beliefs. It must of took her a lot of time to think this one out.
I think that it is wrong toward having a utopian society. I agree with christine K.It is so wrong to be given a injection ,,as to being killled...
the message just typed was by manpreet Kaur......
I think after reading this book about a perfect society gave me a better look of what it would look like if we were in a society such as this. The bad about this society is you get killed or released I agree with Christine too that it's wrong to kill an infant with an injection.
I wonder what happens at the end. I heard that there would be a happy ending.
why is the relationship between jonas and the giver dangerus and wat does this danger suggest about the nature of love
anonymous
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